Hafjell podcast Transcription
So, hello again, this is the next episode from Snow Business in Lillhammer. Today we are going to reflect on the recent site visits to Hafjell. In the room we have host from around Europe and Paulina is going to be main chairperson of the room. So I'm gonna hand over to her and I may interject with some insights and explanation, at times, but we're going to do it the other way round. So I'll hand you over to
Thank you very much. Uh, so, yeah, yesterday we visited um Hafjell where we saw Pellestova. We got a presentation from a person from Alpinco and we also heard about the ski rental and the ski shop. so can you tell me what are your first thoughts about it? How did you like the the site visit?
It was really interesting because I get to know the people who have a lot of responsibility concerning the skiing resort and all about it. And um so do with some like insight information which we yeah, were able to listen to and was quite interesting for me.
Okay. Was there something particularly interesting for you?
Um, for me, it was the facts to discover all the jobs around a resorts. Um, which, um um develop all the activities for us to be free on slopes. I like a future plan of the men from Alpinco. I really like the ideas and the presentation itself.
Do you maybe have any idea what would be very interesting to see in the future for a site visit like this?
For me maybe um in Hafjell more activities for children and um because it's mostly for families, so just this.
Okay. So let's talk more deeply about the location number one, which was uh Pellestova, which we had to go with the bus on a pretty private road which was pretty interesting for me that there is a private road that everybody from the cabin needs to like pay for the upkeeping as well as the hotel there. So, how did you like the place?
I like the place a lot because I have been there already and experience the place many times on cross countries. And I can imagine stay in the hotel, for example, for training camp with my team because it's very nice location and the snow can be there until end of May, so that's definitely the positive side of this location.
Just inter the Pellestova is like tradition a classic fjel hotel. It's kind of on the edge of the mountain plateau. So that's why there's a road to it and then the road network gets covered in snow for the winter and these are arguably summer roads then. And so there are several these fjell hotels around the edge of the mountain plateau and Pelestova is one.
What was the general vibe of the place? Was it more luxurious budget? What was good and bad about this?
I think of the because of the landscapes, it was just first wonderful, and all the infrastructure which are looking luxurious made display just wonderful for our guests who are sleeping in, who are staying here. um as uh you said, for the cross country chain. um yeah, I think it was a luxury place, uh and that's because of all the infrastructures and the landscapes. But it comes to accessibility though, it's not the best possible place ever, at least in my opinion, because it's not a ski and ski out kind of hotel. You have to go there with the bus. Thankfully, there is a bus from this year, so it's possible, b imagine going there with a car every year.
What do you think is it very good or maybe there is other loc location that would be better?
For me because of the luxury, I think some people can afford it to go there pay the road, private road fees and I think it's worth it there for some kind of paper.
Let's go for now then to the location number two, when we got the presentation from a person from Alpinco. So how did you like the presentation? What did you learn about this?
Um, it was really interesting because, um and it was all about the market and how they tried to reach to people. and uh for me, it was really interesting where the people come from, so many Danish people, he um yeah, he talked about a Danish weeks and the week where the slopes are crowded because of the Danish people. And, yeah, it was it was really interesting and I think um it was in the end, we had chance to ask any questions we had and he said, um they will um yeah, maybe expand it and change the the lift of rating system because some of the chairs they're really old and maybe this is like an um development for the future.
Okay. So when we were there, we get to know a little bit more about what Alpino actually owns three ski resorts resorts, it's Kvitfjell, which is more for the more difficult skiing, more for the highest skiing, Hafjell, which is very family oriented, so that's where we were. and Oppdal, which is three hours from here, so that's pretty interesting, but it's more of a wild and nature wild kind of skiing. And besides this, we got to know about like their their marketing, how they target their people, um we got to know about the fact that there are a significant player in the real estate development, uh, which is as they department, it's called Eiodom. and besides this, we got to know, like, what are the their biggest challenges and they said that it's sustainability. What do you think about this?
Uh, I really like the connectivity between Hafjell and Oppdal. um I remember that uh the guy said, uh their goal is to uh compete with, uh the other large large liberal ski results like uh Trysil and I think that's uh the right way of connect like connecting these smaller ski resorts and make one working uh resort where you can go with kids to Hafjell or enjoy um more steeper slopes in Kvitfjell or go three hours to north and try uh slopes in Oppdal. I think that's that's uh that's good good thing.
And um so coming back to the sustainability, uh how did you find that this uh because they said to us that they have this new GPS system for a snow tracking. Do you think that it's uh that there are any other ideas for how they can make it more sustainable as they say?
There's that's the biggest challenge in the goal? Um about the about the tools for snow? I don't have idea to be honest, but uh I think, um to change uh old chairlift or something like this, um to use um tools or raw material from Norway or Scandinavian countries could be really interesting um and also the fact that um, for example, um we have they have an to find a way to balance uh between sustainability and the infrastructure expansion and so I think we've also um um sustainable materials such as, I don't know, wood or something like this, to build a new infrastructure, it could be really important. And uh about the four season destination, this is all about sustainability, I guess, because they will try to um yeah, have to winter season with skiing and people being on the slope. And in summer to have a bike park and people just enjoying nature in summer, and I just we did not talk about yes it today, but it's so video and they are the the manager of the bike rental. He said they will try to expand it and maybe try to have some climbing activities or anything else. So they really try to make it a four season destination.
And the goal is to reach 1 million ski days annually and they think that they that will be possible next year. What do you think about this?
I'm not sure if it, but if it's possible, maybe for me personally, it's really optimistic, but because of the better, the climate change, I'm not sure about snow conditions, so we will see..
So let's go to the topic number three, which was the ski rental and a ski shop. How do you like it?
Yeah, the presentation was nice to I would say nothing too original, but um something that's needs to be in a in a ski resort and good it's good to know uh how the shop and the um rental is working. Yeah, so for me, nothing too special, but nice to know.
Okay. I really nice to know it's a family owned business, so I think it's always like, good for tourists to know, it's family owned because then they think about it and say, oh, nice, it's family-owned. So we support like local businesses, it's it's all about um this yeah, this good feeling to have when you're rent um skis and boots. and um they say they put a lot of effort in maintaining good quality of the skis, and that's really nice because that's the most important thing on your ski.
Yeah. what we get to know is that it's a family owned business that uh they provide tuning maintenance, boot fitt, key rental and shop, and they offer a broad range of equipment, so their ide is for everyone to find something fitting that from them for them, from the begginer to a very advanced skier to a race skis to twin tip skis, they want to have everything. and they said about this free, I would say, dates, uh, that are important for them which with the first one being week seven, called the Danish week, where the people in Denmark have a holidays, so they come here, and then it's very crazy work for them, so they even have to like, bring more people to work at the ski rental to help with all the change of equipment and the maintaining of the equipment in week aid they quickly need to change because they are then people from Oslo have a holiday break and they are coming and in the week nine at the area in which Lillehammer is located, um has holiday as well, but then they don't rent that much stuff because I assume there are a lot of people who live here have their own um things.
So yeah, now let's maybe gather it all together and think about do a little SWOT analyysis and just think about the strengths weaknesses, opportunities and threats for all these places. So, maybe one's big strength for me is that I see there is a lot of passion in everything that we saw yesterday with the ski in the shop as with the ski rental on the shop being family owned business, but also with the fact that Pellestova is pretty much still substantiated by the owner, and uh that the owner of Alpinco his name is sorry for maybe mispronouncing it Andres Buchard. um that they are very into this idea and they really like put a lot of money to make sure that it's working nice. So it's it's nice to hear that it's not only about the revenue and it's not only about having as many people as possible but it's also about the quality uh the activity and they said that their big goal is to become an for people to meet and be active. What would you say is there others strength?
Um I would also say just the fact that um as we said, um, it's a four season destination. So uh you have both um alpine skiing, cross country skiing in Pellestova, uh that can do it in winter, but also in summer, you'll have um cycling and hiking, but they really want to um extend this because, um for example, in Pellestova during uh summer, we don't have anyone. So, um that's why it's also a good thing that cross country can be um um it can be used, can be uh practiced, uh, until the end of May and also the fact that there are a lot of uh different types of equipment, um for the ski stuff as well as uh for beginners, uh but also for um people who are practicing skiing since a lot of years.
Yeah, one of the things from Pellestova is that the so heavily dependent on the winter, where it makes money. And but in the summer, principally because it's location, Pellestove of course, the benefit is is it's the first real Fjell coming north from the road. um so it's straight into the mountain , but of course in the summer, people tend to go further into the mountains. So rather than the beginning, they go further. That's their behavior. So a challenge for Pellestova is to try and leverage what they have in the summer to bring more guests. I mean, I wouldn't say it's zero, but it's definitely not many, and they do have groups that go there like business groups. They try to sell it like where the board can go there for a meeting and then stay for the weekend. This kind of this kind of product yeah, the challenge they have is equally the challenge for another hotel development is being talked about for the summer market.
One more strength that I would say that I saw from the customer side, um customer perspective is the warming houses. I think it was the first time ever in my entire life that I went to a um to a slope and I had an opportunity to sit in a warm place without having the need of like buying their products to be there. So this is really nice considering that we are in Norway. It's pretty cold here and you want to have that opportunity to just sit down and eat your own food without like spending more money as skiing is already pretty expensive and just feel that you're welcome there.
I would like to mention that one more thing and that location and uh it's a very very good accessibility from Oslo. It's uh just two two hours from Oslo and that's a good thing, for example, for weekends. anyone from Oslo can uh spend nice weekend uh here in Hafjell and, you know, this is very good.
So we talked about a really good strength of the place, but now it's time to go to the weaknesses. Do you find any weaknesses of the place?
For me as especially in Hafjell, it's a lack of uh steeper slopes. It's oriented to families, so it's more green and blue slopes, but yeah, also some black ones, but not that much. And also how I said before, lack of winter activities, especially for kids. And expensive food and shop, but uh here is opportunity of the warming house, how we mentioned, so it's not I have to buy something, but it's really expensive
From what I see it, like I went to a different places around the slope to see whatever the prices in the restaurants and they don't have any cheap alternative. I guess they are going for what they said they're more high end kind of aesthetic, where you can just sit and feel like you're sitting in a very good restaurant and maybe not certainly on the slope, but it would be nice that if there would be like one place where there would be like more cheaper options for for example, younger people, because or people coming from countries uh that have there are little bit poorer or um to have a bit more differentiation in between the prices. And from what I saw that for me, at least is a weakness that I didn't really see that much merch. The only one that that I saw was the stickers and I remember every single time we go there and we ask, they are not really happy about giving away the stickers, which I really don't understand because it's a it's a really good promotion for them. I think it's become a more common and uh thing that around Europe, more places, they give out the stickers just to see that people have them on the helmet and then they can look all where is the space. So maybe this is some kind of opportunity also for them for later.
Yeah, and also I would mention uh the the thing that uh the whole um resort is oriented uh is on the hill that's oriented to south. So the snow is uh there melting a little bit faster on the on the spring, and um it's also because uh the altitude it's not too high. and so if I compare it with Kvitfjell, maybe it's a little bit like the season is a little bit shorter in Hafjell than in Kvitfjell.
Yeah, there's no doubt they will have a challenge um as Easter is very late this year and uh the weather forecast for next week is 10 degrees on the valley floor a half yell and they're currently building the World Cup stadium for the men's technical races, which are in two week ends time this may become a significant challenge for them and to host such an event, and we will see that they primed themselves by being so far north that it snow shore we get snow, it stays for longer. It is interesting be it's been an unusual winter, but it may be may not work against them in terms of marketing just to to finish more weaknesses, but it's just my opinion, but I also to to add that in Hafjell you have lack of steeper slopes, but you have some steep slopes in Kvitfjell. So I think that's also a strength because of um the the difference uh that you you have a a huge difference between the three resorts and that's why it's really interesting, as we said before, between the family, the family slopes, the steep slopes Kvitfjell and that's why it's both, according to me, a weakness and a strength.
So now let's maybe go to the um outside things, so let's talk about the opportunities. We already had a um lecture about the torch city um so I guess that's a big opportunity for them. What do you think about this?
I don' not get the torch.
The torch city, okay, so we had the lecture when they talked about the the hotel that they are planning to be and not even the hotel, but the big resort that they're planning to build at the place where there is currently the Gaiastova. And um this project for me sounds like a kind of an American dream, but this this time it's in Norway, because it's a g enormous project with a lot of things happening at the same time they want to bring pool, they want to make cinema, they want to bring a lot of sport activities, a lot of activities for people who will come here and don't ski and it's gonna be a high end product. It's gonna be a four or five star hotel.
It's it's a massive project that definitely takes a lot of money and will maybe bring a lot of people, and I was just wondering how does the community feel about this? And like, I understand it's a big opportunity for the community because they can sell their products, they can um sell their local um food to the hotel and bring more highlight to the place and they can get way more infrastructure for them, but it's also busy slope. that they think about this.
It is, and I think people in no way you have a cabin close to this place, they won't be heavy about it, because they want to have wanna be like in silence and just enjoy skiing and their time and not, yeah, being with tourists all the time who wanna have like a vacation time. So I think that's yeah, they have to consider it while thinking about this as you called it American dream of this um hotel. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a a huge contrast, um but I think it's both, um a bad thing, yeah, for people who are the company. Also, uh a good thing is for sure you will attract people for sure you will attract uh kids, uh people who uh doesn't know how to ski well. um and uh I don't know if it's gonna be a possible uh to build differently that. um but I think it's um it's gonna uh make a lot of noise uh in the region and I think it will attract a lot. So, what this really is is uh a different tourism actor, a large tourism acter of proposing a development on the side of half half was owned by Alppenco, this tourism development is owned by someone else. Of course they have to work together, but this concept is for high-end tourists, which is something only like 100 beds in the hotel, which isn't that significant for such a large development, and arguably this could be an opportunity to leverage year round or four season destination where there is things going on in the summer and we talked about the weaknesses that face Pellestova and when we had the podcasts and and the presentation from the people from Fakelbyen, the issue there was is that they want to work with activities providers to help produce some kind of activities for the non-winter season, for people to come and experience.
Okay. And this arguably is a puzzle that Pellestova hasn't managed to solve and yet with this huge development solve that you know, it's to get year round four season and destination there, it's an interesting question. It could be a big opportunity, but it could be a big threat because you got to build it, you're gonna put a lot of money into it and there might be people coming, but they're also could happen that it won't be such interesting and there will be no people coming in the summer or not more people than they wanted to, and then you're gonna have a big cost to keep up keep it. And uh I I hope it will turn out great, but uh we will the only thing we can do is to wait and see. And yet, there is one other opportunity.
Yeah, I would say I see there is a space for improvement and the summer activities and the first thing, for example, that come to my mind is to uh to build or develop some uh skywalk, for example, that's uh there's a very nice thing. um for people who can go up the up the mountain with a gondola or not the lift and then just walk through the through the whole building with uh some activities for kids and uh see the the mountains from the little bit higher position and see other uh the the nature uh not only in the winter but also uh in the summer and it's not just summer activity, it could be also an autom and spring.
There opportunity as I guess the the hosting the ski racing events, which I think we are all gathered together, we are very into it right now as the the first week second week of volunteering starts tomorrow. uh with the down the hill and the super G for women. and um I don't know if we can say it, but they said yesterday there is a big chance that next year Kvitfjell might, uh host uh the finish of the World Cup.
So I guess with the good marketing of both of these locations together, they can market as a destination where the best skiers in the world come. And uh, people might be there is an opportunity for a promotion like this. But we talked about opportunities now it's time to go for the last things which are threats. I think the main one is global warming snow conditions and they trying to put money in improvement for um um the natural snow, but artificial snow but, it depends on whether always and um it also uh another one is less busy. uh except week seven and it's during vacatiom mainly during big days. it's not that crowdy. I mean, that's one of the attractions for international guests that are not their traditional marketplace.
So Espen the marketing uh person from Alpinco, he pointed out that that most of his the close markets that people were prepared to drive are their coreps guests, but with the likes of the hotel at Fakelbeyen and their hope to have another hotel that he talked about at the base of the mountain, which was interesting is the first time they actually confirmed that something's going to happen. although it was pretty obvious when you have a large piece of land that not been developed at the bottom. But it means that you can host it international guests beyond their traditional marketplaces, you know, who people who are fly in and use grand transports are come to where they are, which they are hoping will fill in the gaps when traditioning is quiet after a winter holidays between winter holidays and Easter, the weeks are significantly quieter quieter than they are between Christmas and winter and these winter holidays we're having at the moment and they're hoping that this the hotels will fill in these gaps by having more high end uh international guests.
So we' all that we come to a conclusion. um have feel is definitely a very interesting destination. um with the marketing together with Oppdal and Kvitfjell, uh with a lot of passion coming from people who are owning it or like putting money into it. um and with a lot of ideas for the future, for how to improve the whole resort, how to make it an actual four season destination to keep the engagement steady throughout the year. What are your last thoughts about this?
From a personal perspective, so is a person who likes skiing and likes yeah, being outside in snow. I love it, so how you and did feel I've been here and it's beautiful, I like skiing there. but I have to say you need to put you put money in it, so you need to afford like the the um yeah, the ski, the boots, all the equipment, and you have to eat something. And for me, the most important point is I have to bring my own like bread or anything else, because I cannot afford eating a burger every day on on the slope. So this is the the point which is important to me, which matters, but, yeah, as a conclusion, I really love it and I yeah, I will have many days on the slope in future.
For me, personally, I really like it. uh for me, it's better feel because of the slopes and um but also how now we said about the food. But for me, it's uh okay that we can eat in warming house, so it's big plus for me. And yeah, I really like it. It's interesting um to see what they will build in the future.
Yeah, I agree that this with this one, I think I see the I feel as a more family oriented, uh, so that's why I like more the Kvitfjell. because of the steeper slopes, but I think for a weekend, it's a it's a great great ski resort
I will also add that, um we have a a a huge chance to have free ski passes, thanks to the World Cup. um and so I think that's a point. uh, who matter a lot. Uh For example, from France and if in France, you are volunteer, you would never get free skipass. So I think it's uh something which is uh really um er it's just a a pleasure for students uh as us.
I would say that I got very emotionally connected to these places because we've been spent here quite a while. I've been skiing there every second third day and uh I feel it's a really good place and I hope that their projects with their ideas to really make it the four-season destination will make it more possible will bring the money that will make it possible for them to have even better technology to keep the snow for longer, to even prolong the um the season, even if the weather condition is not the best. uh but I do wish that it's not gonna become a destination like Livigno, because I do not think that standing for 40 minutes in a queue is that enjoyable, especially that um after all, half feel is not a ginormous snope. They don't have that many kilometers. they don't have that long slopes. So, I hope that it will not be crazy busy. Uh, so people also locals can enjoy it because I assume if you live here, you like skiing, so you don't want to ski when it's always very crowded, uh, but I do hope that they're gonna have the money to make it as good as possible and to make it sustainable to make it uh work nicely with a good snow, good conditions, and still keep it as a passion project.
Yeah, I mean it's interesting what's going on is that one of the bottlenecks at Hafjell is the gondola out at the bottom, and then they are proposing another gondola or another chairlift out of the bottom of the mountain, which is one of the impique periods, such as weak sevens are in the Nordicks, they use these weeks one to 52 a year. so week seven is a kind of mid February. And uh they often put a lot of the Danish issue coming week seven don't have winter tires, so they stay on the valley floor and therefore they need lift up the mountain and do get this huge bottleneck happening But it's not that significant if I compare it to other ski destinations I've I've gone to. I mean, half wise, they' long termm aspiration is family or begginers. It's where you come to learn to get your passion for skiing and then as you progress, maybe you will go to Kvitfjell or further up to the new acquisition in Oppdal. So they're a little bit rather than having very similar ski hill have very quite different, which is, of course, very astute in terms of where your market can go, but most importantly, as we know, long term the demographic threat for skiing is that if people don't get into skiing when they're young, it's it's unlikely that it will be a lifetime of skiing as an activity you would do. And thread is definitely there, the beachhead for this long term hope that they can build and sustain a marketplace for people to come to the mountain. And what was really nice is that although it was a marketing bias from Espen, he he let a little bit more out than sometimes say we've had the commercial operator or the CEO who was a bit guarded about the plans in the past. He actually was a bit free wheeling about hotel at the bottom. Maybe we're going to have another lift. and they're already trying to think about how to solve capacity issues so they can grow. And so I can't really foresee how they will it will be overrun. However, the climate change is an issue, you know, and come the towards Easter on some slopes that are shaded by the trees, it's great and then the part of the slope that is not in the sun is completely different. and whether to leverage is natural features to help prolong their season will be an interesting grasp. Anyway, thank you very much. Great uh conversation on our recent visit to Hafjell. and see you next time.